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Whats the grade on the track?

Discussion in 'WMSTR Railroad General Discussions' started by Ned, Apr 25, 2010.

  1. Ned

    Ned Mega Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    Whats the percent of grade on the big hill just east of gunderson pond? Does anyone know? I've just about every number you could think of but nobody has ever given me the same number twice.
    I know I had visitors ask too and I wasn't able to give them the correct answer to the question.

    Thanks!!!
    Ned :smilie_flagge13:
     
  2. Kenronsberg

    Kenronsberg Intermediate Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    2%
    Ken Ronsberg
     
  3. M Kerkvliet

    M Kerkvliet WMSTR Past President Administrator WMSTR Lifetime Member


    Ken...

    Can you explain how grade is calculated?

    Do you happen to know the grade of the hill (on the road) right next to the tracks in that location? (from the pond up to the Hitterdal Depot)

    Just curious.
     
  4. 40avery

    40avery Mega Poster Super Moderator WMSTR Lifetime Member

    Grade is a the percentage of rise in relation to the run.

    Thus if you mark off 100 feet on the big grade at Rollag and measure the elevation at the 0 mark and the 100 ft mark you will have 2 feet of rise.

    It is a HUGE grade for a railroad.
     
  5. Jerry Christiansen

    Jerry Christiansen Mega Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    I find it interesting that a huge grade for the railroad would be a 'flat' roof. Many buildings have a 4 - 12 pitch, that (like grade) means 4 feet up for every 12 feet over. A 4 - 12 pitch is a 33.3% grade.

    The 2% grade is the same as a 1.1 degree angle. The 4 - 12 pitch is an 18.4 degree angle.

    Later,
    Jerry Christiansen
     
  6. 40avery

    40avery Mega Poster Super Moderator WMSTR Lifetime Member

    No one is trying to push 5K - 10K tons up or down your roof Jerry.

    When you consider the energy it takes to attempt to stop a train on the down side or even just to try and maintain speed or to pull a train up a 1 1/2% grade for many miles the economics are pretty large. Also in the steam engine age you have to consider the effects of the boiler water in relation to the crown sheet.

    Some mining and lumber railroads had much worse grades ( I have seen maps up to 6%) but that is where the Shays and Hieslers came in. They also utilized some tank engines on the medium grades.

    Mountain railroading has always been a challenge for railroads.
     
  7. jasher

    jasher Junior Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    "Big Grade" maxes out at 2.25%
    Down hill is 2.3% max-it had short sections exceeding 3% with < 200' radii before rebuilding, hence pucker marks in engineers seat.
     
  8. jsiirila

    jsiirila Mega Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    our 353

    How much does the 353 with all the cars weigh and with a full load of people on it, water, etc?
     
  9. Tim Moen

    Tim Moen Intermediate Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    big grade

    Don't ask me how I know, however , the 353 will come to a complete stop within 100 feet of emergency application of brakes on the big grade! Tim
     
  10. 40avery

    40avery Mega Poster Super Moderator WMSTR Lifetime Member

    And how did it restart from a dead stop on the grade Tim??:rof:
     
  11. M Kerkvliet

    M Kerkvliet WMSTR Past President Administrator WMSTR Lifetime Member

    Has anyone every figured the grade going up the parade route?
     
  12. P.D.

    P.D. Intermediate Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    Rick,
    Another thing to consider on uphill grades is adhesion. Since the steel wheel on the steel rail is about like your car on glare ice they had to consider that while hauling the huge tonnage. Then when you add in rain or snow or leaves or weeds you know what fun that can add. An advantage the Shay, Heisler & Climax locomotives had was that every wheel was driven so every pound carried on the engine would add to adhesion, including the water and fuel in the tender.......PD
     
  13. James Maxwell

    James Maxwell Intermediate Poster

    To a point it's all relative. The locomotive I run, a 1910 Baldwin 2-8-0 weighs as much as 353, engine only, with it's tender! 156klbs. Our steepest grade is a stretch of 6% with lots of 2, 3, 4% thrown in for good measure! With our small drivers, good loading on the drivers and relativity light train we make it up our hills with nary a problem. I've seen video of the Porter heading up the grade by itself. For the record the data I can find gives 353's empty weight at 151klbs and a tractive effort of 31,200lbs.
     
  14. 40avery

    40avery Mega Poster Super Moderator WMSTR Lifetime Member

    You obviously have not taken the 353 up the big grade on the mornings first big run. Adhesion is a problem at times.
     
  15. P.D.

    P.D. Intermediate Poster WMSTR Lifetime Member

    "At Times" on that first run?:rof:.....PD
     
  16. James Maxwell

    James Maxwell Intermediate Poster

    Backing 12 up to the station in the morning is no picnic either.
     
  17. James Maxwell

    James Maxwell Intermediate Poster

    youtube.com/watch?v=5LrHLBER_Xs
    After scouring my CD collection here is the proof. Turn up your speakers and enjoy! Sadly this is the last footage of this engine steam for a very long time if not forever.
     

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