The Nebraska engine

Lee

Mega Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
What is the status of the Nebraska engine?Any timeline set?

Would be great to have another large engine running.
 

Jerry Christiansen

Mega Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Hi Lee,

The Nebraska engine needs a friend.

While there has been talk about where to put the engine and the energy source for the engine, no one has stepped up to the plate to say, "I will head-up that job."

A debate is on going among the Stationary Steam people. Some want the Nebraska Engine up in the woods near the other large stationary engines.

Others say that too many trees would have to go and that area is too crowded all ready. They think we should spread out the large stationary engines to give people more oppertunities to see them.

As long as opened this up for discussion, let's keep it going.

Jerry Christiansen
 

Lee

Mega Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Where it would go is probably a good start. How much room would it take? How big a steam source? I'm assuming the Montana boiler is pretty close to maxed out. I can see where it would be crowding that area in the woods, but it would almost seem out of place anywhere else. Just my 2cents.

I think this community forum is an excellant idea.It gets folks talking(typing?) about things that can be done.The ideas start flowing and people get inspired.The posts on this board are very positive and it is that energy that will keep WMSTR the best show in the world.
 

Jerry Christiansen

Mega Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
What say you Montana Crew? Is your boiler maxed out? When the Soo Enigne comes on line, will you be maxed out then?

None of the large engines are using much steam compared to what they would use running at speed and under load. If the Nebraska Engine was set up in our "corner" and if it didn't run at full speed, could the Montana supply the steam?

A related questions is: How hard do the people on the Montana want to work? Do they want to be throwing so much coal that firing the boiler is a "job" or do they want to have time to talk with the crowd and keep putting on a show like they do?

Jerry
 

40avery

Mega Poster
Super Moderator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
We do have a Porter boiler that is resting. It could certainly be a very nice stationary boiler.
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Montana power

Dog Gone It! I just spent an hour typing a lengthy post and when I tried to submit it went pooooooffff!!!! Told me I didn't have permission to. Teaches me to save my work. Rats.. Tim
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Montana power

It worked that time. I'll try to remember what I wrote and send again. Tim
 

40avery

Mega Poster
Super Moderator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Tim,

I am sure you probably know but if you are not logged in it will kick your post like that. On my long posts I generally form them up in Word and then copy and paste it into the forum.

Thanks for participating on the forum. We are expecting a lot more activity when the next news letter comes out.:)
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Montana power

Yes Rick, I was logged in but perhaps there is a time limit? Good idea on Word. Thanks! Tim
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Montana power

All, The Montana Boiler is not maxed out yet although it is getting to be “busy” work keeping steam up. There was definitely more of a time lag between firings with the lump coal! With the stoker coal our grates are not up to the forced draft that we could put through them. The grates are in poor shape so we need to have new ones cast. I believe that we are getting a “rosebud” pattern made for this. The Montana was designed to operate at 350# pressures , as a result , it has only a 4 inch main from the boiler to the header. We operate at 150# because that is what our engines were designed for. When we have a good load on and draw a large volume of steam, the water level increases in the boiler an inch or two just from the velocity of the steam moving through the 4 inch main. When the Soo Line comes on line for good, we’re going to add a 6 inch main to the header to solve that problem. ( this has already had the blessing of the inspector) .

The Nebraska engine has been talked about for many years and no matter what seems like a good idea someone doesn’t like it or shoots it down for some reason or other so we gave up for awhile. Location would be a good thing to nail down. I personally would like to see it up by the other large stationary engines whether or not the Montana provides the steam. The Porter boiler could surely work but we have trouble finding and keeping staff and trainees as it is. Must be something about hand firing a boiler that doesn’t move! Ha! I’ll have to check the governor on the Nebraska to see if the cut-off will work to reduce the valve stroke enough to operate on governor at low speed and no load. The Villuame engine would seriously over-run before the valve cut-off by governor would take control. Jerry, I believe this is also the case for the Pabst? There is a tremendous amount of steam that is used and wasted even with a mostly closed throttle valve allowing steam on full (almost) stroke.

Anyway the FIRST thing that should be done (in my humble opinion) is to get ALL the information from those that disassembled the engine. I believe that Alton Moen (no relation) and the Withers crew were involved. Maybe Swed knows or was involved as well. Getting the engine here was voted on and approved at an annual or spring meeting at the Bowler 20-25 years ago. Maybe the minutes of that meeting could shed some light on who to contact. This will give some indication of the size of foundation we’re talking about. Then some areas could be eliminated due to sheer size alone and also get an idea of costs for concrete , forming , etc.. This should have been done BEFORE this engine was approved to be moved here. Also people to insure that it would be put together in a reasonable amount of time. Neal Hemminger and I know on the compressor, and Fred knows on the Soo what’s involved in restoring something that HAS to be here but sits for 20-30 years before being put together. ( The Nebraska was warm when it was taken out) Enough of the soap box. It CAN be done! I would be willing to help getting this thing going and I know that Karl Stange is interested as well. The more the merrier!

Thanks for letting me ramble! Tim Moen.

P.S. RESTORE IT AND WE’LL STEAM IT and then they will come!
 

M Kerkvliet

WMSTR Past President
Administrator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
This is all news to me. Kind of embarrassing, being a board member and not knowing anything about it. I guess it was before my time. Where is the engine now? Sitting outside I suppose? I hope care has been taken to keep anything from getting busted (hard water) and from rusting away.

A little history on the engine would be a good thing for those of us who do not know it!

What are you doing up so late Tim?
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Sheese Mark! Same to you! I'm a horrible night owl and had to figure out the posting thing that worked for me. The Nebraska sits in the old bone-yard next to the tracks. Not to many people interested in it. Shame, Like the Soo engine, was dang near perfect when it got here. Tim
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Was at the hill last weekend getting my "T" but didn't go down to where it sits. Not much if anything was done to protect it in the last 5-10 years. I should reverse--not much was OBVIOUSLY done to protect it. I got the spark to really check it out. I'll fill you in on as much history as I know. When are you planning on a visit to the hill? Can meet you over there. Tim
 

M Kerkvliet

WMSTR Past President
Administrator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Tim Moen;889 said:
Sheese Mark! Same to you! I'm a horrible night owl and had to figure out the posting thing that worked for me.

I just got in off the road, from Sioux Falls. I usually check the forum before I go to bed. Then I can go so the same thing again tomorrow!

Thanks for all of the information on the Montana! That is just the kind of thing we are looking for here. If we can get folks from different areas of the grounds, that have the same kind of knowledge of their areas, that you have of yours... this is going to be a great resource!

Thanks again for participating Tim!
 

40avery

Mega Poster
Super Moderator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
It is easy to trouble shoot any project after the fact. The truth is we learned a lot form the way the Nebraska was handled. The further truth is that it is here on site. Had we waited for all the pieces to fall into place it may not be.

The Soo engine sat for a long time too. We have it. It did not go to the scrapper and it will be an interesting display when it is finished.:D

To me Stationary engines like this are good projects because outside of the initial big cost of concrete, and in this case a building, most other work is busy work without a lot of costs associated.

Since I have been on the board I do not remember anyone bringing it to the board for an advisory opinion and there certainly has not been a budget proposal. You guys are already on the right track. Here is how to continue.

Get a project leader that will not give up on pursuing and organizing the project. This is important because it is probably a project that will take years to complete.

Pick a spot and make a plan and bring it to the board for review.

When your location is approved look things over again and create a budget proposal. Projects are considered for funding in October of each year.

Please remember that as it goes through the budget process there will be many many other projects competing for limited funds. It all takes time. Many projects have had to go through the budget process many times before they got partial funding. This is not because the project was not a good one. A committed group that presents well and shows the long term desire can get this done.

Start with what you have, not what you could have had, and take off from there. It could be a good project for bringing extra people on to your team.

Good luck.:bannana:

Please remember as the project progresses.:picture:
 

Lee

Mega Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Do you think that something should be set up or have a meeting to see how many people are interested?How have the other large projects gotten started?Is this something that WMSTR long range planning has thought about?Thanks
 

40avery

Mega Poster
Super Moderator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Just a suggestion:

It seems from the posts that you have a good core group available right now. Tim has named a couple that have interest. Get the interested parties together on the show grounds and get some ideas together. As the project progresses you will have more people with interest come on board. If you can get your core group together prior to the Summer Meeting you can ask for a place on the agenda and let the group know what you are going to try and do.

If it seems like you can make it go get a few ideas about where it should go and then bring it to the board. Once you have the Idea and the place then you will have to get some estimates together and submit a budget proposal. There is a deadline for projects to be submitted for consideration. I think it is sometime in September. Your budget should include what you anticipate doing for the 1st year and some projections for what you will need down the road to complete the project. Projects are approved and funded on a year to year basis since things can change greatly in 12 months. As I said in my other post do not be surprised if it does not get funding in the first year it is proposed but don't give up.

This forum is also a great place to discuss the project. Once the newsletter goes out we will have a lot of members joining in. Many will have ideas that they will share.

Again - Good luck you are asking the right questions.:)
 

Tim Moen

Intermediate Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
Please understand I'm not sorry that the engine is here on the grounds or in ANY way faulting anyone for ANYTHING. I was at the meeting when it was voted on to bring the engine here and voted yay. My frustration lies in the fact that the engine has had minimal attention in even the barest effort of protection from elements. Hey! I am just as much to blame as anyone ( perhaps more so) because one of my areas of interest is stationary steam. To me, this interest because of this WONDERFUL forum, boosts my enthusiasm tremendously!!! When the newsletter comes out and we get even more people reading, my hope is that more would show interest. I would surely like to get together this spring to meet with folks and at LEAST get some protection on this engine. Also, I would like to have some contact names for long range planning people. Mark Neu?
Rick and others, My rant was due to my excitement! I resectfully apologise. Tim Moen
 

40avery

Mega Poster
Super Moderator
WMSTR Lifetime Member
No apologies necessary Tim.

We are really happy to see that this forum is already bringing people of like interests together. We are such a big show that I sometimes think we all miss opportunities to come together with others that have like interests. I can see excitement building with you and several others here that could be the start of another team to do a restoration on the grounds. Preservation is certainly a valid concern. Let's talk sometime. I have a couple of ideas that may help you.:)

By the way the newsletter is due out very soon and we have an annoncement that this forum is up and running so there will soon be a lot more posts on all the threads here. It will bring further excitement on many porjects and areas of the show.:bannana:
 

Lee

Mega Poster
WMSTR Lifetime Member
I would certainly be interested in helping.I've been trying to find my place at Rollag, and this looks like good place.Just name the time and place.
 
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